Sincere Question About Woody Allen

December 4, 2011 15 Comments

Did he just lift his entire ‘lovable neurotic perennial loser’ persona from Charlie Brown at some point in the early/mid ’60s, thinking it was charming?

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15 Responses to Sincere Question About Woody Allen

  1. Anon. says:
    December 4, 2011 at 5:25 pm

    I don’t know.

    Reply
    • Sonic Charmer says:
      December 4, 2011 at 7:47 pm

      Bummer. I guess I have to hope my other reader knows the answer.

      Reply
  2. Pastorius says:
    December 4, 2011 at 10:38 pm

    I don’t actually “read” this blog. I just comment.

    But, I don’t know either.

    Sorry about that.

    Reply
  3. Andrea Harris says:
    December 5, 2011 at 1:50 pm

    I believe that Woody Allen based his comic persona on the Jewish sad-sack character known as the “nebbish.” Charlie Brown was invented by a guy in Minnesota of German-Norwegian descent. That Wikipedia entry doesn’t say what religion Charles Schulz was, but he was probably Lutheran like most other people of German-Norwegian descent in Minnesota. My point is: different worlds, and I can’t see Woody Allen being influenced by Charlie Brown to a great extent. For one thing, he was apparently pretty good at baseball when he was a kid (“strong arms”!).

    Reply
    • Andrea Harris says:
      December 5, 2011 at 1:51 pm

      Whoops, there’s a screw up in the last sentence involving a broken link. Sorry.

      Reply
    • Sonic Charmer says:
      December 5, 2011 at 7:17 pm

      Proof by Google search:

      1. +”woody allen” +”charlie brown” gets you to a New York Magazine article making the comparison, in 1969.

      2. Whatever the origin of his creator, Charlie Brown is clearly viewed by some as a ‘nebbish’ type anyway. +”charlie brown” +nebbish = 22k results.

      The way my theory would go is that Charles Schultz created/evolved a certain character type, it happened to appeal to folks like Woody Allen, perhaps indeed partially because it coincided with the ‘nebbish’ persona a bit, Allen read Peanuts, and it was Allen aping Brown (who came first).

      What strengthens my confidence in this theory is the fact that now, whenever I think of Woody Allen, I can’t help but think ‘poor-man’s Charlie Brown’. He really does seem to be a guy trying to behave like Charlie Brown – and to garner audience love in the same way/for the same reasons – including the mugging for the camera, the self-deprecation, the depressed manner of speaking, the women secretly (and implausibly) in love with him, etc.

      Anyway, either I’ve hit upon a valid insight, or I’ve ruined Woody Allen movies for myself forever. You tell me…

      Reply
      • Anon. says:
        December 5, 2011 at 7:47 pm

        is charlie brown the character with peanuts?
        if so, I tend to go to with andrea this time (who’d have thunk it), not because he could play baseball pretty well (regardless of whether she’s referring to charlie brown or to woody allen) but because having only one point in common: being morose, is simply hardly proof of anything. In all other respects, they differ.
        Woody allen is a screwball, charlie brown isn’t, the former is oddly successful with women, the latter isn’t, one is very witty (for better or worse), the other isn’t, one is self-absorbed, etc.
        You might as well ask if woodie allen was influenced by clerk kent and transformed himself, glasses and all into a type of superman (in terms of power, status) or if his glasses are part of his superman costume.

        Reply
      • Andrea Harris says:
        December 5, 2011 at 10:08 pm

        It’s true that the Charlie Brown character resembles the “nebbish” to a degree, but after you get past the hapless “shit always happens to me” aspects, the Woody Allen character and Charlie Brown diverge.

        I don’t know. I grew up in Miami, where there are a lot of Jews. My own family was WASP, but the Southern version. The other main ethnic group to influence my perception were the Cubans. I didn’t really meet any Midwesterners until I was in my twenties. Of course, like any kid, I read Charlie Brown and watched the Christmas specials and even acted (badly) in a Charlie Brown musical my junior high chorus class put on. But I’m just not seeing a big connection; it was just that in the Sixties and Seventies the character of the “sad sack” was popular. Allen was the urban, New York, Jewish version; Charlie Brown was the small town/suburban WASP version.

        Reply
      • Sonic Charmer says:
        December 5, 2011 at 10:13 pm

        I think they diverge because Woody Allen isn’t all that good at aping Charlie Brown. He’s not that great of an actor, you see. But he’s *trying*! :-)

        Reply
      • Sonic Charmer says:
        December 5, 2011 at 10:26 pm

        The Superman reference is not off base either. Superman of course was created by two Jewish guys, but they consciously made their character (in his earth guise) represent everything good/decent that I guess they loved about Americana.

        If my Woody/Charlie theory is correct, we have the same sort of dynamic: a young Woody Allen grew up on and embraced Americana. Baseball. Jazz. Peanuts.

        We already know the first two are true. What is so implausible about the third exactly?

        Admit it you guys I’m on to something. I’ve discovered the Woody Allen Rosetta Stone. I understand Woody Allen movies now. :)

        Reply
      • Anon. says:
        December 6, 2011 at 3:23 pm

        >Admit it you guys I’m on to something

        Do you mean “I’m on something” or “I’m on to something”?

        Please be clear (want to be sure I answer the right question).

        Reply
  4. Pastorius says:
    December 5, 2011 at 9:41 pm

    Wow. I think Andrea nailed it.

    You know what’s weird? I met a schlemiel today, and he was an Iranian Muslim. I always thought schlemieldom was the exclusive domain of Jews (well, and of me too), but now I know a Muslim schlemiel.

    Exciting, huh?

    Reply
  5. Sonic Charmer says:
    December 5, 2011 at 9:51 pm

    The problem with continuing this discussion is that the more links I try to dig up proving that tons of other people in the past 40+ years have made the Woody Allen/Charlie Brown connection, the less original and more pedestrian my observation begins to seem. It’s a losing battle.

    What’s schlemiel? Is that similar to saffron? Next time I’m at the Persian restaurant remind me to ask for my rice with extra schlemiel.

    Reply
    • Andrea Harris says:
      December 5, 2011 at 10:11 pm

      There are many websites which will translate Yiddish terms for you. Really, you should look them up — your life will be enriched, and now when someone from New York calls you a putz you’ll know what he meant.

      Reply
      • Sonic Charmer says:
        December 5, 2011 at 10:14 pm

        Putz – yes – I know that one – reliever for the Mets.

        Reply

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